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Thieving: what to do with stolen tagged items
#1
Here is the current rule on theft:

Quote:You may not take untagged items from other players or staff; this is stealing and is a real world crime. If you steal a tagged item, please turn the prop in to plot camp at your earliest convenience and the tag is yours to keep. You may only take the tag from radios, media devices, gadgets, and other expensive or fragile items (leaving the prop behind). If your tagged item is stolen, you may retrieve the prop from plot camp by the end of game. The only exception to this is ammunition, which is covered below. You may use an item or ammo, taken from a foe but the prop should be turned over to the player or plot camp after the resolution of the scene. If you pick up a tagged weapon you may use it until the scene is over but you must turn the prop over to the original owner or plot camp when you are done.

The line in bold is where I would like to focus the topic.

In other LARPs I've played, tagged items remain IG until it is destroyed, taken OOG by an NPC, or the end of the event. So if you steal a tagged item, the item stays IG unless you sell it off to an NPC fence, or hide it somewhere until the end of the event where you can then keep the tag and return the prop to the player.

I would like to see this in Spite.

The current system allows for an easy getaway for the thief and no chance of recourse for the victim. There is no going out and searching for your stolen items, and no forcing a captured thief to return the items (if the items haven't been fenced yet). By being able to steal an item, give the prop to plot anytime during the event AND the thief gets to keep the tag, any and all evidence against the thief is gone. There is no trial and nothing for the Agency to work with in the case.

In short, being able to turn in stolen items to plot removes a huge opportunity for role-play between the players, and that to me is more important than getting stolen items back.
Wile E. Coyote
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subcontractor of Wartime Salvage
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#2
I don't know... I agree with you for some aspects... but frankly, if I make a nice latex sword, I don't want a bunch of strangers using it, possibly breaking it, etc until the end of game.

At another LARP I go to, they put a 'description' of the item on the tag. Maybe something like that...

So for example the tag might look like this:
-------------------

SPITE

Firearm
"Black painted Maverick"

Sundered []
Sundered []
-------------------
William Myers aka Cossak Symon Jenkins
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#3
I think as a community we aren't going to be treating items that roughly, and also they probably wont be being used if they were stolen. General thing is you have to hide it.

I don't think it should apply to things like a media device, since I can't really have people stealing my phone, but weapon props, medkits, repair kits, etc, could have their props taken and returned to hive after destruction or to the lost and found table at the end of game, as I've seen happen (with success) at other larps.

I don't want tags to have descriptions, since I plan to upgrade gear periodically, and I don't want to have to get new tags. Firearms are not cheap.
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#4
For sure. Every game has variants on theft rules.

In one I played, you could put a orange dot sticker on your prop. This indicated that you did not want anyone else using your prop, but it also meant that a thief could take the tag immediately. In that game, the prop was left behind for you to reuse, but in Spite, that could be when the prop is taken to plot.
Wile E. Coyote
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subcontractor of Wartime Salvage
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#5
I have a few thoughts:
  • The intention, as I understand it, is to ensure that so long as you have tags, you can use your props. Stealing someone's prop doesn't just inconvenience them on an IG level "Oh no! My gun is gone!", it inconveniences them on an OOG level as well "Sure, I have ten tags for guns, but someone took my prop, so I'm defenseless".
  • Stickers sound like a bad way to mark a prop as stealable or not. Either you end up having "nonstealable prop" stickers wash off during course of play, in which leads to misunderstandings and sore feelings, or I steal your stealable prop and really like it, so I remove the sticker.
  • Some props really don't like stickers.
  • Some folks have strong opinions about personal property.

Along the lines of what William Myers suggested, something I actually considered asking was whether or not it was legit to mark our tags in any way we like. Say, I take my gun tag and have a rubber stamp of the Carlton Dance that I put on it. Now, if you steal the firearm, you turn in the prop, but if I see that tag on your firearm, I get to accuse you of having robbed me, etc.
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#6
(04-29-2015, 11:03 AM)John Pariury II Wrote: Along the lines of what William Myers suggested, something I actually considered asking was whether or not it was legit to mark our tags in any way we like. Say, I take my gun tag and have a rubber stamp of the Carlton Dance that I put on it. Now, if you steal the firearm, you turn in the prop, but if I see that tag on your firearm, I get to accuse you of having robbed me, etc.

That's not bad. Can a technician "remove" the stamp?
William Myers aka Cossak Symon Jenkins
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#7
(04-29-2015, 11:03 AM)John Pariury II Wrote: The intention, as I understand it, is to ensure that so long as you have tags, you can use your props.  Stealing someone's prop doesn't just inconvenience them on an IG level "Oh no!  My gun is gone!", it inconveniences them on an OOG level as well "Sure, I have ten tags for guns, but someone took my prop, so I'm defenseless".

I was kinda wondering about that. I do get the idea behind the rule, but it really seems to favor people who can afford to buy a lot of Nerf guns and props... Maybe this should be a different topic?

The stickers, like any system, works as long as the players adhere to the rules. So if you have a sticker on your prop, no one can remove it but you. Anyone else would be cheating/stealing in real life.

Now the stamp on the tag idea is really interesting. Especially if you put your name on it in ink, there is no way to remove your name so it ensures that that tag belongs to you. If you recovered your tag, you could then go to plot and get your prop back.

It would not make sense for a Technician to remove the name as I am thinking that the tag represents the entire item, not just a serial number or any other marking. But there is the problem of HOW would anyone remove an identifying mark from a tag? The stamp/name/whatever would be in ink...
Wile E. Coyote
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subcontractor of Wartime Salvage
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#8
Heh. I wonder if the Agency would get suspicious if they started discovering weapons where the serial number equivalents were filed off...

I guess you could scribble over the identifying mark in Sharpie or something. It would leave a very visible sign that the identifying mark had been removed. Maybe?
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#9
Ya know there is something to that, isn't there?

But you know... serial numbers on tags could become a thing, if the rules gurus allow it.

I also wouldn't want it to be impossible to be a thief either. So there has to be a happy compromise.
Wile E. Coyote
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subcontractor of Wartime Salvage
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#10
(04-29-2015, 12:16 PM)Natalya Haner Wrote: But you know... serial numbers on tags could become a thing, if the rules gurus allow it.

^^^ This ^^^

I like it because its 'proof', without being 'obvious'. I still think a technician should be able to alter or remove the serial number tho Smile
William Myers aka Cossak Symon Jenkins
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