Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
If a Crippled Body falls in the forest...
#11
Player: "Hey, I'm out here all on my lonesome, no way to move, no one to save me. What can we do?"

Plot: "We'll send some bugs right out to collect you."
Reply
#12
(05-04-2015, 08:02 AM)John Pariury II Wrote: ... I don't see an issue with dropping some gear and a note to rep "you" ...

This is asking players to imagine a body lying there that isn't really there. That is not WYSIWYG. In that scenario, WYSIWYG is a pile of gear with a note on it.

The food crate is WYSIWYG because it is representing a crate of food, nothing more. The only minor detail is that there isn't any food any it, thus no weight. This could be resolved by making a rule that only androids, characters with cyberarms, or characters with a cart can carry the crates. OR the Org could fill those crates with real cans and bottles of water (this could be turned into a charity thing), then no one could just run up and grab the crate, players would have to have a cart.
Wile E. Coyote
[Image: acme-logo.png]
subcontractor of Wartime Salvage
Reply
#13
(05-04-2015, 06:52 PM)Mr. J Wrote: But it is, because before you told them your character was out there they were unaware, and so were any NPCs they might send out. So they would be making IG decisions with information they would be given OOG.

I suspect this comes down to a difference in game running philosophies. I generally don't think that the game runners should be unaware of what is going on at the game, and generally speaking, the game runners are ALWAYS making decisions about what to do based on OOG information.

At the same time, I think we're operating on different ideas of what "metagaming" is. Every action they take IG is done based on OOG information - what players enjoy, what motivates the characters, etc. We're all operating on OOG information to influence our IG actions - that's why we're not rolling around on BMX bikes to beat one another to salvage drops - we OOG don't want to deal with the scenario of people shooting one another, running someone over by accident, etc. This is not what I mean when I talk about "metagaming". It's why we don't just choke someone out during the game or punch them in the nose - the OOG knowledge of the harm it causes dictates our IG decision not to do that.

To be clear, the game is a collaborative effort on the part of the PCs, the game runners, and the NPCs to tell a story. If someone is off in the woods CrippleBodied with no likelihood of rescue, there's not really much collaborative story being told. Look at it this way - either way (you die, or you drop a temporary rep), you're going to the Hive to talk to staff about what happened - "Hey, I'm dead and need to go in as a new character" or "Hey, I'm CrippleBodied with no likelihood of any immediate help". Making the former a rule takes away the ability of the game runners to create some story that can advance the game for everyone. Even if the end result is "Aaaaand, your character dies", maybe they want to have the character dragged into some IG Hive mound where your character records some good IG info on their media device that the players can find later in the game. Maybe they have some pertinent info that they tried to put out earlier that got shut down, but they still need that info to go out some other way, and having your character be rescued advances that. Maybe they want an NPC recon team to bring in your dead body. Putting it into the hands of the game runners is a vastly superior method of handling it than taking those options away.

(05-05-2015, 09:30 AM)Natalya Haner Wrote: This is asking players to imagine a body lying there that isn't really there. That is not WYSIWYG. In that scenario, WYSIWYG is a pile of gear with a note on it.
Sure, and WYSIWYG is some yahoos in the woods with paint on their faces and NERF guns in their hands shooting foam darts. Clearly, the game has numerous allowances for WYSISE. Wink
Reply
#14
A pile of gear with a note is very different in terms of WYSIWYG vs paint on your face or a painted blaster with darts. In fact, the latter two are about enhancing WYSIWYG.

You interact with Hive when you die because you have to make a new character and report that death. By the rules.
Telling hive you are crippled in the woods lacks parity. Why is it that Doug cyborg gets saved while crippled by npcs, but because terry android asked when they were busy he's told he just dies?

This is not a lighthearted high fantasy larp, this is a brutal Sci fi one. You should be more likely to die than not.

If a crippled body falls in the forest, and no one human hears it, I bet you the from did. They seem to hear everything.
Reply
#15
My point here is that the rules are unclear about what SHOULD be done. JP suggests something that I've seen done in other LARPs with success. On the other side, the concept that a player disappearing OOG, leaving behind only a note, violates too much of the WYSIWYG is a staple in many other LARPs. My note here is that the rules need to say what should happen in this situation. There is a clear example where someone can be left in the woods alive with a helpless character. So far, none of the proposals (die, leave your stuff, just get up and walk to Hive with your stuff, or anything else proposed) fall within the scope of the rules. What should be done in this case doesn't have an answer in the rulebook at this time.

My personal feeling is that either death or the effect wearing off to some degree are appropriate changes to the rules. I feel that games with rules about leaving a tag to represent your body work directly against the spirit of good LARP mechanics.
Reply
#16
Right. I think we are all discussing what the best action could be.
Reply
#17
There is a third answer that hasn't been brought up.

Don't be a dick. If you drop someone with a cripple body, tell the Hive. Leaving someone out in the woods like that is being a jerk of a player. Given how limited uses of such abilities are in the game, you'll know you did it too. Don't leave your fellow player lying in the woods, man. That's being a jerk to the player, not the character.
Reply
#18
Adding a time limit to Cripple body that leads to death at the end is the simplest solution that is well within the scope of the rules without having to tell anyone that someone is lying in the woods.

Now its just up to the rules gurus to decide what they want to do Smile
Wile E. Coyote
[Image: acme-logo.png]
subcontractor of Wartime Salvage
Reply
#19
(05-05-2015, 11:23 AM)Mr. F Wrote: You interact with Hive when you die because you have to make a new character and report that death. By the rules.
Sure, but we're talking about what should be codified in the rules under a given circumstance with the assumption that the game runners didn't take into account the guy sitting in the woods alone and alive but unable to do anything. If the rules for that scenario were "If this happens, go let the Hive know" then doing so would equally be "by the rules", right?

Quote:Telling hive you are crippled in the woods lacks parity. Why is it that Doug cyborg gets saved while crippled by npcs, but because terry android asked when they were busy he's told he just dies?
In general principle, I'm pretty okay with giving the game runners the leeway to not have all situations lead to the same result. Much as I'm okay with them deciding that Group A encounters fifty Drom Officers but Group B encounters a friendly refugee with loads of loot, I don't really have much worry about a lack of parity in my proposed solution.

(05-05-2015, 04:48 PM)Marc DeArmond Wrote: My point here is that the rules are unclear about what SHOULD be done.
I'd disagree. The rules seem pretty straight forward - lay there unless it's unsafe to do so. Clearly, none of us think that's a particularly good way to go about it, and so any suggestion is a proposal to change the rules. Wink

(05-05-2015, 09:15 PM)Benjamin Thayer Wrote: There is a third answer that hasn't been brought up.

Don't be a dick. If you drop someone with a cripple body, tell the Hive.

Ahem....
(05-03-2015, 12:52 AM)John Pariury II Wrote: If you are responsible for having left a Crippled Body alone in the woods, why wouldn't you let the Hive know so that they can take whatever action they deem appropriate and safe?
Wink
Reply
#20
>.>

Well... Consider this a seconding of that.

*ahem*
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)